Thursday, October 22, 2015

Batman and Spiderman (a thought experiment)

I have strange playmates.

Our idea of a fun time involves what if experiments that go into borderline impossible fan fiction, or casting books we really want to see on the screen

For instance, there's one thought experiment that asks a simple question: What if Batman entered Spider-man's New York City?  And what if Spider-man ended up in Batman's Gotham at the same time?

The first thing Batman would do is start building his new identity.  Sure, he can cook up Bruce Wayne as a "fake" ID, and he'd then have to start rebuilding his fortune from there. And he'd probably end up with owning half of the Fantastic 4's Baxter Building, a good chunk of Stark Industries, and maybe even part of Black Panther's Wakanda. Where would he get the money for these investments? You mean that there isn't enough room in his utility belt for a million dollars in diamonds et al? Hell, he could patent some of his toys from his belt, and trade the patents to Tony Stark for stock options.

Or, Batman could do what the DEA does, and simply confiscate property of criminals when they can't be returned them to their proper owner. Either way, he wouldn't be hurting for money.

Option #3: Batman would go to Avengers Tower, or the Fantastic Four, and say "Hey, look, guys, I'm a superhero from another dimension. I need to get home, got any ideas? Can you help a brutha out?" At that point, Mr. Fantastic would get to work cycling through dimensions until he gets the right one (creating no less than six word-threatening crises), and Stark would probably let Batman play with his toys to build an Iron Bat suit (which I presume is what Batfleck is wearing in the next Superman film) so he can kill time.

After that? Can you imagine Batman resting on his laurels? This guy is more OCD than anyone else on the planet, as far as Superheros go.


The first and most simple aspect of this shift comes with the villains.  Batman generally doesn't have to put up with super villains, but Spider-man has to on a daily basis.

Lizard or Rhino: I grouped these two together since they're basic muscle.  They're also similar to other Batman villains: Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy and Bane.  This is actually easy when you consider it.  Batman doesn't have to deal with Bane all that often, but when Bane was written as someone with a brain, Batman beat him every single time except for their first encounter. But if you transplant Batman into Spider-man's universe, what do you get? Batman has to deal with either the Lizard or the Rhino, neither of which usually has a brain (the Lizard has his moments of having an IQ, but generally, he's just an animal with a Jekyl and Hyde thing going on).  They would be easy enough.  Expect Batman to lead either one of them into a building, and then drop it on them.

Sandman -- Another easy one, really.  Yes, Sandman can't be punched, or killed, but, heck, neither can the shape-shifting Clayface. And, knowing that Sandman is essentially immortal, Batman would probably just bring along incendiary devices to turn Sandman to glass.

Black Cat -- I'm not even sure that Black Cat is a villain anymore. She's a sexy cat-burglar in black leather who flirts with the local superhero ... oh, screw it, Batman already has enough Catwoman issues. Also, Black Cat would find Batman boring.

Vulture /Green Goblin -- two flyers that deal with projectile weapons, usually daggers or pumkin bombs. Yeah, Batman never has to deal with someone like that. However will he manage with ...

Oh, wait, Batman's dealt with Firefly.  If you're not familiar with the comic book version of Firefly, imagine a pyromaniac who can fly like Vulture, hover, and comes with firebombs and a flame thrower, as well as close quarters combat. Yeah, after dealing with this nutcase, Spider-man's flying killers will be almost easy.

Electro  -- Batman will have a rubber-insulated Batsuit and break every bone in Electro's body. Then he will throw Electro into the Hudson river.

Venom / Carnage: These guys might be a problem, since they're both older characters, and experienced. They're crazy, but they're not stupid.   Sure, they're both allergic to fire and sonic weapons, and Batman will get firebombs to slow them down, and sonic grenades and weapons installed on whatever toys he brings into Marvel's Manhattan, but it's going to be a stamina game. Carnage would be pelting Batman with numerous projectiles and melee weapons, and Venom can close quickly. If either one got their hands on Batman, it would be game over.  This would be an argument for Batman to have a pseudo-Iron Man like suit, even if it's a basic exoskeleton.  Why would fire and sonics not be an easy out? Because last time I saw him, Venom was getting used to sonics over time. In either case, it would require a combination of both sonics and melee moves to cripple them.

Mysterio: Mysterio is a master of illusion in the Marvelverse.  But, Batman has has his brain rewired by both the Mad Hatter and Scarecrow, a fancy laser light show wouldn't mean anything to him. Also, he's have specialized filters in his Bat suit.

Shocker .... I won't even go into Shocker, since even Spider-man makes fun of him.

Chameleon: Chameleon is a spy in the Marvelverse who has fancy tech that makes him look like anyone. He's not a supervillain, just a guy with fancy toys.  This would require detective work ... from the world's Greatest Detective muahahahaha

Doc Ock: This would be interesting, for the simple reason that Doctor Otto Octavius is quite smart, but if you can get your hands on him, most women I know could beat him to death with a baseball bat ... but you have to get past his four indestructible mechanical arms. That means that Batman would probably just go all predator on him, pick off his guards one by one, then drop out from the ceiling, straight onto his head.  Or concussion grenades.

Kingpin: Batman would, for the most part, probably just make a deal with Kingpin. He would have a few run-ins with Kingpin, breaking apart illicit parts of his criminal empire.  They would go a few rounds.  Batman would break a few bones.  After about a month, they'll have a nice polite sit down, in which Batman will tell Kingpin that he's going into white collar crime from now on.  This is a deal he's more or less got going with the Penguin, who, in the comics, runs his own lounge, and more or less sticks to money laundering, information brokering, that sort of thing.

What happens when Batman meets the rest of the Marvel-verse?  He'd either ignore the Avengers, or try and take it over ... like he did with Justice League.

Well, he'd try

Let's face it, in Gotham, Batman is the big fish in a medium sized pond. Yes, I said medium-sized; Gotham was always the city with corrupt cops, corrupt city officials, overrun by the mob... you know, Chicago. And, since Chicago is the second city, well, Batman can keep it.

However, New York? Batman couldn't run two blocks without running into yet another superhero. They even break down some of them by neighborhoods.

The X-Men have Westchester (far enough out of NYC to avoid the city line, but close enough for a commute), so probably the Bronx. Daredevil has what used to be called Hell's Kitchen. Tony Stark is on 59th and Broadway, just off of Columbus Circle, the Avengers have Central Park East covered (890 th Avenge).  And the Fantastic Four (when they're in town) are off of 42nd and Madison, and SHIELD has a station at 59th and Madison. Midtown is covered. Luke Cage has Harlem (depending on what's going on there at the time), or the GEM/Amc theater on 42nd street.

Spider-man seemed to have the other burrows (let's face it everyone, he lived in Forest Hills, Queens). However, his newspaper seemed to be the Flatiron building, in lower Manhattan, so he has a swath to himself.

You think Greenwich Village isn't covered? Doctor Strange lives on Bleecker Street.

Batman would either have to learn to play well with others, or move to Brooklyn. Or worse, Staten Island.  Though, being Batman, he might want to move into the Bronx and take it over.

Meeting Tony Stark.

Ah, but what happens when some superhero gets cloned, or brainwashed, or turned into a villain? Shall we count the amount of people that's happened to in Marvel? Like Daredevil being possessed, or Wolverine being brainwashed, Captain America having his own twin and his own clone, or the 500 Iron Man knockoffs, or Deadpool being Deadpool....?

You get the idea.

Not to mention the "misunderstand" fight -- that's two superheroes running into each other, either or both thinking that the other is the badguy

Wolverine / Daredevil -- Batman would win against both of these men with heightened senses, and for the same reason: he'd bring itching powder.

Captain America: Batman vs. Captain America was already seen in a Marvel vs. DC crossover event in the mid-90s.  They'd be very evenly matched, and it would end in a draw, probably a double-KO. But that's if it's Captain America -- if it's a clone, or a twin, or anyone other than Steve Rodgers, Batman will probably win on the grounds of stubbornness

Doctor Strange: Batman would have a nice, calm, reasonable conversation with the good Doctor, and not piss him off.

The Vision: Batman deals with the Red Tornado, the DC comics version of Vision, every other day. He has a plan to kill Red Tornado (and everyone else in the Justice League, really) so he'd probably use that on Vision.

I could continue, but this is already over-long.


And what about Spider Man? How would he fair in Gotham?

Well, for the most part, that's easy. Batman has few, if any, superpowered villians.  Two Face? Riddler? Penquin? Black Mask? Easy.  And many of the others are easy, covered above: Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy (Check), Clayface (see Sandman), Firebug (for Spiderman, he would just be a combination of Vulture and Green Goblin).

Then imagine it: Joker versus Spiderman.  That would happen once.  Yes, once.  Why? Because Joker and Spider-man would be trading jokes and one-liners, and Joker would then stomp away, pouting that he'd been out-matched and couldn't hit Spider-man. In short: Spider-man wouldn't be any fun.  Joker would lock himself away in Arkham until Batman came back.

Bane: As soon as Bane hears that Batman is no longer in Gotham, he'd come back to town.  If he's still on the Venom, he'd be a quick disable -- just pull his steroid-pump injector tubes. If he's not, and Bane is relying solely on his brain ... then Peter Parker would be in trouble, especially if Bane saw him as a threat.  Though, seriously, if Bane were just left alone to run the criminal organizations of Gotham, Spider-man may not have a problem with that. Again, it depends on how Bane is written.  If it's the Bane who just wants to run the underworld and rule the criminals, Spider-Man just might ask him to have no collateral damage, thank you. And could you take out Black Mask? He's a nutter, thanks. If Bane is written as a world-destroying sociopath, then it would be a matter of playing chess with a gun to your head. But, thankfully, Spider-Man has no problem playing well with others, and he'd have a dozen team-ups by then, and he'd call everyone on his Rolodex.

Poison Ivy: One of the closest that Batman has to a super-villain.  If this is the Poison Ivy of the animated series, Spider-man may not have too much of a problem with her man-eating plants. If it's the Ivy of the Arkham video games, the one who is herself a killer plant, it would slow Spider-Man down. A little.

Seriously, who would be a problem for Spider Man in this universe? How about this: Deadshot, Deathstroke, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze. Ra's al-Ghul.

Deadshot? See all of Spider-Man's run-ins with the Punisher. It would be kind of like that. No, seriously, the Punisher gave Spider-Man a boatload of trouble, including shooting Spider-Man's webshooters off of his wrist, while both parties were in motion. That'd be fun.

Why Deathstroke? Because Slade Wilson would analyze Spiderman's movements (perhaps by first subcontracting a few guys to be canon fodder), and discover "hmm, he has an ESP-like quality that predicts danger," and either decide that it would be something to use against Spiderman, or a reason to avoid dealing with him entirely.

Scarecrow: Imagine Peter Parker, and his resume, and all of his insecurities, and tell me that Scarecrow wouldn't turn him into a quivering mass of psychosis.  But, then again, five minutes after Spiderman lands in Gotham, he'd be working with the Bat-family, and be inoculated.

Mister Freeze: It would be a challenge, but Spider-Man has gone a few rounds with Iron Man, he can take a guy in a cold suit.

Ra's al-Ghul: Batman usually has to deal with Ra's because the League is always trying to recruit him.  Without Batman in Gotham, would Ra's bother? If the answer is yes, then that's when Spider-Man would hit the panic button and call in other heroes.  Though, honestly, in a fight between Ra's and Spider-Man, it would probably be no contest. Spider-Man has fought The Hand, who are essentially magical ninjas, he can deal with a few psychotic al-Qaeda rejects who think they're in the Arabian nights.

The Allies

And then there's dealing with the Bat-family. Again, Spider-Man plays well with others so much, he had an entire comic-book line dedicated entirely to team-ups. He doesn't get more user friendly than this. He'd apply to the Justice League as soon as possible, and ask them if 1) They had any inter-dimensional portal equipment and 2) if he could sign up.

Also, Oracle would take one look at him and say "You're a brightly-colored superhero in Gotham city ... you go in the front, they'll all shoot at you. Nightwing, Robin, et al, will go in the back and pick the goons off stealthy-like. That'll work fine."

Spider-man might actually try making a move on Barbara Gordon (wheelchair or not... she is a redhead), but that depends on if he's married in this continuity.

I'm not sure if Catwoman would try going after Spider-Man. She goes for tall dark and serious, and Spider-Man? Not so much.

Now, what happens when heroes go bad, and Spider-Man has to face them?

Superman -- if Superman goes bad, and Spider-man is left alone with him in a dark alley, Spider-Man would dodge, dodge, keep dodging, all the while try to diagnose and deprogram him. Also, green glowing rocks of kryptonite.

Wonder Woman -- Possibly the best fighter in all of DC, Wonder Woman would trash Spider-Man ... if she can get her hands on him. I don't recall if she can fly, but if she's ground-based, getting Spider-Man would be a hassle. If she can fly, he really can run, and run, and run, until he drops a wall on her, and continue running.

Green Lantern -- Considering that Hal Jordan is friends with perpetual jokester and semi-Anarchist Oliver Queen (this is the comic books, remember), he would probably get along great with Peter Parker. If he went bad ... Spider-Man wouldn't have to deal with it, because there's a whole Green Lantern corps

Oliver Queen -- The DC Comics Green Arrow would hate Spider-Man. Because they're far too much alike.

Barry Allen -- As they're both Science-Nerds, they would work great together.  But stopping Flash? That would probably take more than just a tripwire.

Yeah...anyway, this was a crapton of work.

And of course, these are only the HIGHLIGHTS.  There are so many heroes, villains, and miscellaneous that would take up a whole book, to hell with just a blog.

Anyway, welcome to the inside of my brain. Bring a flashlight, it's dark in here.


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Do we bring in the DC vs Marvel comic line or the Avengers v JLA arc? Because both of those bring some serious answer to the above! XD

    1. Probably the DC vs Marvel. Though there are some sections where I'm wondering if the votes on them were't a touch off (Storm beating Wonder Woman? Ehhhh...)


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